Odyssey Marine Finds More Coins

Odyssey Marine has found another wreck only time will tell if legal issues don't tie this one up as well. The Full article follows below. Let me know what you think should they be searching these wrecks? Also do you think this one will get tied up in the courts like some of the others?

Odyssey Marine, the southern Florida concern that has found more coin treasurers than any other salver, has a new discovery as of Feb. 2: the wreck of HMS Victory, which sank in the English Channel on Oct. 4, 1744 taking 1,150 sailors and four tons of Portuguese gold to the bottom of Davy Jones's locker.

About 200,000 gold coins are believed to be part of the treasure, whose sinking caused a major embarrassment to King George II in 1744, and whose recovery in 2009 could well become a cause celebre in international legal circles.

The wreckage of the HMS Victory, found below about 330 feet of water, may carry an even bigger jackpot than the $500 million in sunken treasure discovered two years ago off the coast of Spain.

Research indicates the HMS Victory was carrying 4 tons of gold coins when it sank in storm, said Greg Stemm, co-founder of Odyssey Marine Exploration, ahead of a Monday news conference in London.

So far, two brass cannons have been recovered from the wreck, Stemm said. The Florida-based company said it is negotiating with the British government over collaborating on the project.

"This is a big one, just because of the history,'' Stemm said. "Very rarely do you solve an age-old mystery like this.''

Thirty-one brass cannons and other evidence on the wreck allowed definitive identification of the HMS Victory, 175-foot (53-meter) sailing ship that was separated from its fleet and sank in the English Channel on Oct. 4, 1744, with at least 900 men aboard, the company said. The ship was the largest and, with 110 brass cannons, the most heavily armed vessel of its day. It was the inspiration for the HMS Victory, famously commanded by Adm. Horatio Nelson decades later.

Odyssey was searching for other valuable shipwrecks in the English Channel when it came across the Victory. Stemm wouldn't say exactly where the ship was found for fear of attracting plunderers, though he said it wasn't close to where it was expected.

"We found this more than 50 miles (80 kilometers) from where anybody would have thought it went down,'' Stemm said.

Federal court records filed by Odyssey in Tampa seeking the exclusive salvage rights said the site is 25 miles to 40 miles (40 kilometers to 64 kilometers) from the English coast, outside of its territorial waters. Odyssey Marine has previously discovered vessels with treasure that sailed under the flags of Spain, Peru, England and others.

In order to assert ownership, Odyssey Marine commenced an action in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida, located in Tampa. The technical term is to "arrest" the vessel, a principal whereby the salver recovers some portion of the ship or its cargo and brings it before the court. In this case, it was a brass cannon.

The Victory the same name was used for Lord Nelson's shop at Trafalgar generations later is only called an "Unidentified vessel" in the title of the complaint, the better to confuse those who might seek to take the treasure from under the noses of the competition other treasure salvers.

Odyssey's claims for salvage rights for other vessels were asserted under either international law of the sea or the law of salvage, which sometimes conflict. They are litigating against the Kingdom of Spain and Republic fo Peru over Spanish galleons found after a shipwreck in the 17th century.

English shipwrecks have a common law background, different from the civil law of Spanish countries, which reserve treasure to the sovereign and provide that it cannot be salvaged without the consent of Her Majesty's government. On another less important wreck, Odyssey got to keep 80 percent of the first $50 million in salvage value on a diminishing scale until above $500 million the profits would be split 50-50.

Under international maritime law and the law of the sea, going back to the time of Hugo Grotius in the year 1600, when an owner of a vessel abandons it, it may be claimed by anyone who finds it. When it is not abandoned, a wreck may be salvaged by anyone who claims it ("arrests" the wreck, in the arcane language of admiralty law).

They may not necessarily be able to keep the goods, but must be compensated for the salvage work that they have done the payment can be quite liberal if there is a right to work the vessel and its treasure in the first place.

In most instances, available technology at the time the ships surrendered to the depths limited the ability to salvage the ships, rescue persons or property. The situation with the Mercedes (another Odyssey litigation with Spain) is also similar to more than 600 other Spanish wrecks that are known to have populated the East Coast of the United States.

This very factor, and the wreck of other ships, prompted the U.S. Congress in 1987 to try and regulate control over the marine tragedies that took place inside the three-mile limit. Essentially, they were ruled to be owned by the United States, which in turn delegated the ownership to the individual states.

The Victory is located in the English Channel, about 60 miles from its last reported position which solved a historical mystery and Odyssey claims that no nation has the right to regulate who can salvage it. The British Foreign Office disagrees.

Regardless of the state or nation involved, the general principals of law are essentially the same. When sunken ships or their cargo are rescued from the bottom of the ocean by those other than the owners, courts generally favor applying the law of salvage over the law of finds.

"Finds" can be summed up by that childish taunt, "Finder's keepers".

Finds law is generally applied, however, where the previous owners are found to have abandoned their property. Abandonment must be proved to the Court's satisfaction by clear and convincing evidence, typically by an owner's express declaration abandoning title. (It can be proved indirectly through actions, too).

In some instances, a commercial shipments of gold may be insured, and the underwriters are usually asked to promptly pay the claims. The payment of the claims vests title to the gold in the underwriters, who can no more salvage the boat than the government can.

The position of the Department of State, as expressed in a Report of the House of Representatives in 1988 IS that "the U.S. only abandons its sovereignty over, and title to, sunken U.S. warships by affirmative act; mere passage of time or lack of positive assertions of right are insufficient to establish such abandonment".

A 1902 treaty of friendship and commerce with Spain provided the key that the Court will look to: "Spanish vessels can ... be abandoned only by express renunciation. Both Spain and the United States agree that this treaty provision requires that in our territorial waters Spanish ships are to be accorded the same immunity as United States.

So the shipwreck of the century is headed to Tampa and court where it will all be sorted out in the coming months. Meanwhile, the salvers will be looking for the coins that they know are on board, under 300 feet of the English channel and many pages of history.

E-Bay And Third Party Coin Grading Company's Sued

This should be interesting to see what happens, there have been a few cases working their way through the courts the decisions made could have a big impact on E-bay and the other party's in my opinion.

Online Internet auction firm eBay, the American Numismatic Association, the Professional Numismatists Guild, and the ANA president's coin firm have been hit with a lawsuit in federal court alleging anti-competitive conduct.

There are four plaintiffs: Universal Grading Service of New Jersey; John Callandrello, a UGS shareholder; Joseph Komito, a New Jersey coin dealer; and Vadim Kirichenko, a New York coin dealer.

They claim damages in excess of $75,000, exclusive of costs, interest and attorney's fees and permanent injunctive relief.

Basis for the claim is an allegation of conduct "constituting violation of antitrust policies, as well as violation of anticompetitive conduct.

There is also a claim for "civil conspiracy and trade libel" pursuant to New York common law. Under the rules of defamation, truth is an affirmative defense to trade libel, if the action complained of actually took place.

The summons and complaint was filed in late August in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of New York, headquartered in Brooklyn, where the Hon. Charles Sifton presides. An initial conference has been scheduled for Jan. 19, 2009, at 10:30 a.m. before the Judge Robert M. Levy.

Plaintiffs claim a "conspiracy between [Barry Suppler & CO., LLC], ANA, PNG and eBay to obstruct the ability of the smaller coin grading services to participate in the coin marketplace on eBay."

The basis of the claim: In 2001, eBay "formed a group that became known as the 'Internet rules committee' made up of coin industry insiders, including Barry Stuppler, in his capacity as then ANA governor and chairman of the ANA Consumer Protection Committee (the precursor to the "Coins Community Watch Group"), Doug Winter, a PNG dealer, and R. Steven Ivy," of Heritage.

Through the effort of this group and others, plaintiffs charge, PNG, in conjunction with the Industry Council for Tangible Assets ("ICTA") and spearheaded by Stuppler, commissioned a survey of rare coin authentication and grading services, which it is claimed gave rise to false and damaging results because of insufficient data.

"Small grading companies like UGS were never referenced in 2006 Grading Service Survey," it is claimed. Thus, coupled with an eBay policy permitting "only coins that have been graded by five grading services (NGC, NCS, PCGS, ICG and ANACS, ) to be listed for sale on eBay as "certified" coins," they claim these actions are anti-competitive and illegal.

The policies, plaintiffs hope to prove, are "destroying the competitive free market by prohibiting consumers and dealers from purchasing or dealing in certified coins graded from any coin grading service except for the ones listed in eBay's policy."

Attorneys for the companies that claim to be besmirched brought it as a class action suit on behalf of themselves and all others similarly situated who comprise the ... "class." That includes "all companies and individuals who provide coin grading services on the market for coin auctions to the public at large and who have not been certified by eBay as 'the authorized grading company" pursuant to eBay's Counterfeit Currency and Stamps policy and who are interested in pursuing this lawsuit.' The class period is from January 2004 to the present.

It is also claimed that "eBay's policy enacted on Sept. 17, 2007 ... is per se unlawful because it limits the flow of goods in commerce."

There will be procedural wangling as to whether the ANA has a sufficient New York presence to be sued here. Presumably, as a national organization which held conventions in New York City in 1997, 1976, 1939 and earlier; had officers who resided or were present and conducted official ANA business in New York over extended periods of time, that may be hard to defeat.

PNG procedurally faces a better set of facts, as does Suppler. EBay will be interesting to watch since their presence is everywhere there is the Internet, but the law is more nuanced. ICTA, though named as a part of all this, was not sued.

For now, the case is in a legal hiatus while plaintiffs try an serve the defendants with legal process. Once that's done, there may be requests for summary relief before an answer is even filed, or the case may proceed with a different track which will be interesting to watch as it plays out. The step after that is the 2009 conference.

Alexander The Great (336–323 BC) (Coinage And History)

I have not been posting as much as I would like with the coinage and history series, so I thought I would get one out for a change this is one of my newest additions to the collection below you find some info on the coin and some history as well.

AR Drachm 19mm. 3.88g. Colophon Mint 301-297 B.C.

Head of Herakles, r. wearing lion skin headdress.
Zeus enthroned left., holding eagle and sceptre; lion's head left. above crescent in left. field; pentagram below throne.
Price 1832

Alexander the Great (Greek: Αλέξανδρος ο Μέγας or Μέγας Aλέξανδρος, Megas Alexandros; July 20 356 BC – June 10 323 BC),also known as Alexander III and Alexander the Macedonian, was an ancient Greek king (basileus) of Macedon (336–323 BC). He was one of the most successful military commanders in history, and was undefeated in battle. By the time of his death, he had conquered most of the world known to the ancient Greeks.

Alexander assumed the kingship of Macedon following the death of his father Philip II of Macedon. Philip had united most of the city-states of mainland Greece under Macedonian rule (the so-called League of Corinth). After reconfirming Macedonian hegemony by quashing a rebellion of southern Greek city-states, and staging a short but bloody excursion against Macedon's northern neighbors, Alexander set out east against the Achaemenid Persian Empire, which he defeated and overthrew. His conquests including Anatolia, Syria, Phoenicia, Judea, Gaza, Egypt, Bactria, and Mesopotamia, and extended the boundaries of his own empire as far as Punjab, India.

Prior to his death, Alexander had already made plans for military and mercantile expansions into the Arabian peninsula, after which he was to turn his armies to the west (Carthage, Rome, and the Iberian Peninsula). His original vision had been to the east, though, to the ends of the world and the Great Outer Sea, as described by his boyhood tutor Aristotle.

Alexander integrated many foreigners into his army, leading some scholars to credit him with a "policy of fusion." He also encouraged marriages between his soldiers and foreigners; he himself went on to marry two foreign princesses.

Alexander died after twelve years of constant military campaigning, possibly as a result of malaria, poisoning, typhoid fever, viral encephalitis or the consequences of alcoholism. His legacy and conquests lived on long after him, and ushered in centuries of Greek settlement and cultural influence over distant areas. This period is known as the Hellenistic Age, and featured a combination of Greek, Middle Eastern and Indian culture. Alexander himself was featured prominently in the history and myth of both Greek and non-Greek cultures. His exploits inspired a literary tradition in which he appeared as a legendary hero in the tradition of Achilles.

E-Bay And Third Party Coin Grading Companys

I thought some people might be interested in this suite that has started with E-Bay and some of the slabbing company's. This I think could get very interesting and may work. It also highlights some of the problems with Third Party Grading services/slabbing.

The Gaden Tangka Of Tibet ( Coinage And History Series)

This is part of an ongoing series about coinage and history. I thought since the 14Th Dalai Lama will be visiting Canada soon it might be interesting to see a Coin from Tibet.

The coin pictured above is from 1880-1894 the following below is a description for this coin type.

Gaden Tanka Circa 1880-1894 All Classes Have the following types:

Obverse: Stylised Lotus design within circle surrounded by the eight Buddhist lucky symbols in radiating petals.

Reverse: Eight petalled flower within star surrounded by inscription broken up into eight oval frames. Inscription in Tibetan reads as: "Ga-den Pho-dang chhog-le rnam-gyal" The Golden Palace Victorious on all sides.

This Gaden Tangka I believe to be a Class B Type IV using Rhodes Classification system.

This coin is from the time of the 13Th Dali Lama a brief biography follows below in an attempt to put the coin into an historical perspective.

Thubten Gyatso (born February 12, 1876; died December 17, 1933) was the 13th Dalai Lama of Tibet. He was an intelligent reformer who proved himself a skillful politician when Tibet became a pawn in the great game between Imperial Russia, China, and the British Empire. He was responsible for countering the British expedition to Tibet, restoring discipline in monastic life, and increasing the number of lay officials to avoid excessive power being placed in the hands of the monks.

Legislation was introduced to counter corruption among officials, a national taxation system was established, and a police force was created. As a result of his contacts with foreign powers and their representatives (e.g., Pyotr Kozlov and Gustaf Mannerheim), the Dalai Lama showed an interest in world affairs and introduced electricity, the telephone and the first motor car to Tibet. Nonetheless, at the end of his life in 1933, he saw that Tibet was about to enter a dark age.

The 13th Dalai Lama predicted before dying:

"Very soon in this land (with a harmonious blend of religion and politics) deceptive acts may occur from without and within. At that time, if we do not dare to protect our territory, our spiritual personalities including the Victorious Father and Son (Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama) may be exterminated without trace, the property and authority of our Lakangs (residences of reincarnated lamas) and monks may be taken away. Moreover, our political system, developed by the Three Great Dharma Kings (Tri Songtsen Gampo, Tri Songdetsen and Tri Ralpachen) will vanish without anything remaining. The property of all people, high and low, will be seized and the people forced to become slaves. All living beings will have to endure endless days of suffering and will be stricken with fear. Such a time will come."

Furthermore, the 13th Dalai Lama went on to predict the invasion of Tibet and announced that he would die early, in order that his successor would be old enough to act as a leader for the Tibetan people at the time of this invasion. He died several months later.

I hope you find this interesting please let me know what you think any feedback would be great.

George V (6 May 1910 - 20 January 1936)

This is a shilling of George V Spink 4013 and is part of the ongoing series of Coinage and History. I hope you find it interesting.

HOUSE OF WINDSOR Formally Known As The House Of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

George V (6 May 1910 - 20 January 1936) - born 3rd June 1865 - one marriage with five offspring

Second son of Edward VII, George Duke of York was a fine naval officer and pushed his career until the death of his elder brother Albert made him heir to the throne. He married Mary of Teck in 1893 who bore him four sons and one daughter. George saw Britain through the crises of World War I and even visited the front, one occasion at which he broke his pelvis after falling from his horse, the injury would pain him for the rest of his life.

George suffered badly from Bronchitis in the early thirties and spent a lot of time in Bognor on the south coast of Britain to take in the good air, and henceforth the town has been known as Bognor Regis. The King was still in ill health by the time of his Silver Jubilee in 1935, and it was bronchitis that eventually killed him in January 1936 aged 70.


Under George V's reign paper money was issued by the treasury to replace internal gold usage though branch mints remained open at Australia and South Africa continued striking Sovereigns until 1930 to 1932. The steep rise in silver prices at around 1919-1920 led to the issue standard of .925 silver being discontinued and coins of .500 silver were minted.

In 1918 as half sovereigns were not being minted farthings were issued with the ordinary bronze finish. Crown pieces had not been issued for awhile for general circulation but were struck in a small number around the Holidays for people to give as gifts. There was also a special commemorative crown issued in 1935 using an Art Deco design of George and The Dragon to celebrate George V's Silver Jubilee and is sometime affectionately called the Rocking Horse crown, because George V died on January 20Th it is most likely that coins dated 1936 were struck under Edward VIII.

Coin May Revolutionize British History

I know this is probably old news, but I thought people might be interested in it just in case they did not see it.

10th Century Viking Hoard Found ( Part II)

10th Century Viking Hoard Found

I thought people might be interested in this story if they have not all
ready heard about it on the news. I hope you enjoy it and find it as
interesting as I do. I can't wait to see some images of the new coin
types. The obove picture shows the hoard find but not individual coins the picture is from the British Musuem via AP

The most important Viking treasures to be discovered in Britain for 150 years have been unearthed by a father and son while metal detecting in North Yorkshire.

David and Andrew Whelan uncovered the hoard, which dates back to the 10th century, in Harrogate. The British Museum said yesterday that the treasures were of global significance and could shed new light on the period.

Andrew Whelan, 35, said it had initially felt like an unlucky day when they drove out to the countryside with their metal detectors one Saturday morning in January.

He and his father, 65, had been turned away from two farms and had had a squabble before reluctantly visiting a field as a "last resort" because they had only ever discovered buttons there.

The pair then unearthed a bundle which included 617 silver coins, a gold arm-ring and a gilt silver vessel so rare it is only the second of its kind ever to be found in Britain, and is among six or seven in Europe.

Mr Whelan Jnr, who has been metal detecting for six years, said it quickly became apparent they had stumbled upon an extraordinary find.

"My father got a strong signal and a cup tumbled out after a couple of scoops of earth. There was a coin sat on top of this bundle. We knew then it was something big and we were shaking with excitement as we lifted it out," he said.

After transporting the hoard to their home, they left it on their kitchen counter while they went to report it to their local finds liaison officer in Leeds. It was transferred to the British Museum where conservators carefully examined each item over months.

It is thought that the treasure was buried for safekeeping by a wealthy Viking leader during the unrest that followed the conquest of the Viking kingdom of Northumbria in AD 927 by the Anglo-Saxon king Athelstan (924-39).

One of the coins, which bears the Latin inscription, Rex Tiotius Britanniae, dating to 927, is the earliest indication of Britain being under one ruler, at a time when the country was split between Viking and Anglo-Saxon control. The medieval objects were found to have come from Afghanistan, Russia, Scandinavia and continental Europe.

The gilt vessel, made in France in the first half of the ninth century, has roundels inscribed with seven animals around it, and was believed to have been intended for use in church services. It was probably looted from a monastery by Vikings or given to them in tribute.

Most of the smaller objects were hidden inside the vessel. The coins included several new and rare types, suggesting that there were more mints in the country than previously thought.

The coroner, Geoff Fell, declared the hoard as a treasure, at a court hearing in Harrogate. "Treasure cases are always interesting, but this is one of the most exciting cases that I have ever had to rule on. I'm delighted that such an important Viking hoard has been discovered in North Yorkshire. We are extremely proud of our Viking heritage in this area," he said.

Margaret Hodge, the Culture minister, added: "Finds such as this are invaluable in teaching us about our history. I commend David and Andrew Whelan for their prompt and responsible reporting of this hugely significant find, which will enrich our understanding of the Vikings."

The hoard will be valued and then the British Museum and York Museum Trust plan to appeal to the Heritage Lottery Fund for its acquisition so they can exhibit it.

The Vikings in Britain

* In the year 793, Viking pirate raiders sailed across the North Sea to attack a Christian monastery at Lindisfarne in north-east England and pillage the surrounding area. Viking raids spread across Britain soon afterwards.

* In 865, a huge army of Danish Vikings invaded England. The fighting went on for several years.

* Vikings conquered all of northern, central and eastern England, and seized much of the land for their own farms. They called the area The Danelaw.

* In the ninth century, Norwegian Vikings sailed to northern and western Scotland and seized land. They also settled on the Isle of Man and Wales.

Spain sues over shipwreck booty - coins could be worth $500 million!

The Spanish government said Thursday it has filed a lawsuit in a U.S. federal court against an American treasure-hunting firm over a shipwreck the company has found laden with a colonial-era booty.If the vessel was Spanish or was removed from Spanish waters, any treasure would belong to Spain, Spain says.



read more | digg story

The British Trade Dollar ( Coinage And History)

With the extension of British trading interest in the East, especially after the founding of Singapore 1819 and Hong Kong in 1842, it became necessary to produce a special Dollar so as to remove the reliance of a British Colony upon the various foreign coins then in circulation. The two Pictures above are Trade Dollars from my collection both from the reign of Victoria, One is a 1897 B Mint the other is a 1900 B mint

China Trade, Silver Dollars were a direct result of the Opium Wars (1839-1843, 1856-1860), which began when China tried to stop Britain from selling opium to its citizens. The loser, China, had to open up a number of ports to British trade and residence, and cede Hong Kong to Britain. In the decades that followed, merchants and adventurers flocked to these areas, and international trade flourished. Foreign banks were established, and large silver coins from all over the world began arriving to pay for tea, silk, and Chinese porcelain to be shipped abroad. These .900 fine silver trade dollars were then circulated throughout China, where they were readily accepted as a medium of exchange. The British Trade Dollars, minted exclusively for use in the Far East, depict Britannia standing on shore, holding a trident in one hand and balancing a British shield in the other, with a merchant ship under full sail in the background. On the reverse is an arabesque design with the Chinese symbol for longevity in the center, and the denomination in two languages— Chinese and Malay.

The British Trade Dollar was minted from 1895, with the last being produced in 1935. Those with the mint mark "B" were produced at the Bombay mint; others, marked "C", were struck in Calcutta. The mint mark "C" can be found in the ground between the left foot of Britannia and the base of the shield, while the mint mark "B" is located in the centre prong of the trident. The 1921-B dollar was struck but never released for circulation, and only a limited number of 1934-B and 1935-B coins were released. Certain dates are found with a new date being over-struck on another; these include 1897-B over 1896-B, 1900-B over 1894-B, 1901-B over 1900-B, 1909-B over 1908-B, 1904-B over 1898-B, 1903-B over 1902-B, 1908-B over 1903-B, 1904-B over 1903-B, 1929-B over 1901-B, 1908-B over 1907-B, and 1910-B over 1900-B. The British Trade Dollar was demonetized on August 1, 1937.

Shipwreck Treasure Found III

Shipwreck Treasure Found Part II

It looks like the secracy will go one for a bit here is a report for today where they speculate that the shipwreck find was off the coast of Corwall, so now we have two places either off the coast of Flordia or Corwall another interesting thing was the stock for the company clossed out yesterday up by Eighty Percent.


Odyssey Marine Exploration Stock

So all in all this is going to be fun to follow.


Record wreck 'found off Cornwall'

The haul was salvaged using a tethered underwater robot

The haul of coins

A record haul of half a million silver and gold coins from a 17th Century shipwreck may have been found just 40 miles from Land's End, an expert said.
US treasure hunters said the coins, worth an estimated $500m (£253m), were recovered in the Atlantic Ocean.

But Odyssey Marine Exploration, who described it as the largest find of its kind, refused to pinpoint the location.

US coin expert Dr Lane Brunner said there was evidence the shipwreck was lying off the Cornish coast.

Dr Brunner, from the American Numismatic Association, told Five Live there were clues about the location in a statement given to a US federal court in the autumn.

"They told a judge at that point that they had found the wreck of a seventeenth-century merchant ship in the Atlantic Ocean, just outside the English Channel - about 40 miles off Lands' End.


So all we can do is add two and two together
Dr Lane Brunner


"So all we can do is add two and two together. It would seem logical given the timing and everything that could be the site."

In 1641, an English ship called the Merchant Royal sank off the Scilly Islands, laden with bullion from Mexico. There is speculation that this is the wreck salvaged by Odyssey.

'Dazzling specimens'

Odyssey said it had kept the location secret because of security and legal reasons.

"The gold coins are almost all dazzling mint state specimens," Odyssey co-founder Greg Stemm said.

The artefacts, including more than 17 tonnes of silver coins plus a few hundred gold coins, have been shipped to the US and are being examined by experts at an undisclosed location.


The mammoth haul was salvaged using a tethered underwater robot.

Odyssey, which used the code name Black Swan, said it expected the wreck to become one of the "most publicised in history".

It said the site was of huge historical importance because of the insight it would offer into seafaring and the social life of the period when the ship sank.

"Our research suggests that there were a number of colonial period shipwrecks that were lost in the area where this site is located, so we are being very cautious about speculating as to the possible identity of the shipwreck," said John Morris, Odyssey's co-founder.

"We have treated this site with kid gloves and the archaeological work done by our team out there is unsurpassed.

"We are thoroughly documenting and recording the site, which we believe will have immense historical significance," he said.

Odyssey said the coins were recovered in international waters, "beyond the legal jurisdiction of any country", and had been legally imported into the US.

Shipwreck Treasure Found

This is interesting wish they could release more
details about what coins they found or what ship it
might be. I hope the respect the archaeological
aspects of the site as well. It could be very exceptional if it is a
British Ship.


I hope you find it interesting, as I think we will
probably see these coins at some point on the market.


TAMPA, Fla. - Deep-sea explorers said Friday they have
mined what could be the richest shipwreck treasure in
history, bringing home 17 tons of colonial-era silver
and gold coins from an undisclosed site in the
Atlantic Ocean. Estimated value: $500 million.


A jet chartered by Tampa-based Odyssey Marine
Exploration landed in the United States recently with
hundreds of plastic containers brimming with coins
raised from the ocean floor, Odyssey co-chairman Greg
Stemm said. The more than 500,000 pieces are expected
to fetch an average of $1,000 each from collectors and
investors.


"For this colonial era, I think (the find) is
unprecedented," said rare coin expert Nick Bruyer, who
examined a batch of coins from the wreck. "I don't
know of anything equal or comparable to it."


Citing security concerns, the company declined to
release any details about the ship or the wreck site
Friday. Stemm said a formal announcement will come
later, but court records indicate the coins might come
from a 400-year-old ship found off England.


Because the shipwreck was found in a lane where many
colonial-era vessels went down, there is still some
uncertainty about its nationality, size and age, Stemm
said, although evidence points to a specific known
shipwreck. The site is beyond the territorial waters
or legal jurisdiction of any country, he said.


"Rather than a shout of glee, it's more being able to
exhale for the first time in a long time," Stemm said
of the haul, by far the biggest in Odyssey's 13-year
history.


He wouldn't say if the loot was taken from the same
wreck site near the English Channel that Odyssey
recently petitioned a federal court for permission to
salvage.


In seeking exclusive rights to that site, an Odyssey
attorney told a federal judge last fall that the
company likely had found the remains of a 17th-century
merchant vessel that sank with valuable cargo aboard,
about 40 miles off the southwestern tip of England. A
judge signed an order granting those rights last
month.


In keeping with the secretive nature of the project
dubbed "Black Swan," Odyssey also isn't talking yet
about the types, denominations and country of origin
of the coins.


Bruyer said he observed a wide range of varieties and
dates of likely uncirculated currency in much better
condition than artifacts yielded by most shipwrecks of
a similar age.


The Black Swan coins - mostly silver pieces - likely
will fetch several hundred dollars to several thousand
dollars each, with some possibly commanding much more,
he said. Value is determined by rarity, condition and
the story behind them.


Controlled release of the coins into the market along
with their expected high value to collectors likely
will keep prices at a premium, he said.


The richest ever shipwreck haul was yielded by the
Spanish galleon Nuestra Senora de Atocha, which sank
in a hurricane off the Florida Keys in 1622.
Treasure-hunting pioneer Mel Fisher found it in 1985,
retrieving a reported $400 million in coins and other
loot.


Odyssey likely will return to the same spot for more
coins and artifacts.


"We have treated this site with kid gloves and the
archaeological work done by our team out there is
unsurpassed," Odyssey CEO John Morris said. "We are
thoroughly documenting and recording the site, which
we believe will have immense historical significance."


The news is timely for Odyssey, the only publicly
traded company of its kind.


The company salvaged more than 50,000 coins and other
artifacts from the wreck of the SS Republic off
Savannah, Ga., in 2003, making millions. But Odyssey
posted losses in 2005 and 2006 while using its
expensive, state-of-the-art ships and deep-water
robotic equipment to hunt for the next mother lode.


"The outside world now understands that what we do is
a real business and is repeatable and not just a lucky
one shot deal," Stemm said. "I don't know of anybody
else who has hit more than one economically
significant shipwreck."


In January, Odyssey won permission from the Spanish
government to resume a suspended search for the wreck
of the HMS Sussex, which was leading a British fleet
into the Mediterranean Sea for a war against France in
1694 when it sank in a storm off Gibraltar.


Historians believe the 157-foot warship was carrying
nine tons of gold coins to buy the loyalty of the Duke
of Savoy, a potential ally in southeastern France.
Odyssey believes those coins could also fetch more
than $500 million.


But under the terms of a historic agreement Odyssey
will have to share any finds with the British
government. The company will get 80 percent of the
first $45 million and about 50 percent of the proceeds
thereafter.

Elizabeth I (17 Nov 1558 - 24 March 1603) Coinage and History

This is another part in the coinage and history series, I fear I have been somewhat slow with the release of posts with this, though a lot is dependent, on when I purchase new coins. I have also been experimenting with Photographing the coins as opposed to scanning them to get the best image.

The picture above is of a Shilling from Elizabeth I it is from the year 1560-1561 Mintmark-Cross-Spink-2555-A. The Obverse portrait side may look the worse for wear, but it was very common with the larger coins for them to be weakly struck. So this is still a very nice example given that it has not been clipped, another practice that was very common. The practice of clipping is very much what it sounds like, people would clip small potions of the sliver off of the coin, pretty much whatever they felt they could get away with.

This coin is also interesting as it was minted at the start of Elizabeth I great recoinage of the realm, as the coinage under her Brother Edward VI, and Her Father Henry VIII had been debased mostly under Henry VIII, in order for him to finance his wars and household, This is where Henry The VIII received the nickname old Coppernose from, as the silver would wear away on the high points of the coin and reveal the base metal, most offten than not on the nose first.

At this time when Elizabeth, was still very early into her queenship, The Tudor house was not in great financial shape as the spending under her father and mismanagement had sorely pressed the royal coffers. Elizabeth I though had been very good at managing her estates, so she used the funds from them to finance the recoinage, just one other little thing of interest Elizabeth I also used some of the royal households silver service to be melted down and used in the recoinage as well. You will find below some more information on The House Of Tudor. I hope you have enjoyed this and please feel free to leave any comments or feedback you may have.

HOUSE OF TUDOR

Elizabeth I (17 Nov 1558 - 24 March 1603) - born 7th September 1533The Virgin Queen Elizabeth or ‘Gloriana’ un-did Catholic Mary’s work as England reverted to Protestantism and pacified the religious divide. Skilled at politics, she was lucky to be surrounded by talented advisors, but angered them by avoiding the issue of marriage and of course never had children. She assisted Dutch Protestants, and is most famous for defeating her unpopular brother in law, Philip II during the Spanish Armada war of 1588. Her reign is also known for the introduction of the potato and tobacco from the “New World” by Sir Francis Drake.

A long and prosperous reign ended in 1603 when Elizabeth died of old age at 75.A significant reign for coinage as the first machine made pieces were struck from the presses of the Frenchman Eloye Mestrelle in 1561. However they were not popular as production was slow with the horse drawn mill press, though the quality was very good. Mestrelle was dismissed in 1572 and later executed for his collusion with forgers in 1578 some historians believe this may have been engineered by rivals. Elizabeth enjoyed a long reign and this covered many different denominations being issued at various times.

The gold crowns were again issued and it was not till 1600 that the large silver crown was again minted. In 1559 the old debased coins of Edward VI were called in for counter marking at a lower face value and the silver fineness was restored to 0.925 by 1582. A new denomination the three-farthings was introduced to help with small change transactions. The first attempt at international trade coins occurred in 1600-01 with the Portcullis Money for use in the East Indies with weights equivalent to the already popular Spanish trade Reales.

George V (6 May 1910 - 20 January 1936) Coinage and History

This is a Crown for George V it's from his Jubilee year of 1935 and the device of St George was done in an art deco style that was popular at the time. I have also posted above a picture of a George V Farthing from 1932.

HOUSE OF WINDSOR



George V (6 May 1910 - 20 January 1936) - born 3rd June 1865 - one marriage with five offspring

Second son of Edward VII, George Duke of York was a fine naval officer and pushed his career until the death of his elder brother Albert made him heir to the throne. He married Mary of Teck in 1893 who bore him four sons and one daughter. George saw Britain through the crises of World War I and even visited the front, one occasion at which he broke his pelvis after falling from his horse, the injury would pain him for the rest of his life.

George suffered badly from Bronchitis in the early thirties and spent a lot of time in Bognor on the south coast of Britain to take in the good air, and henceforth the town has been known as Bognor Regis. The King was still in ill health by the time of his Silver Jubilee in 1935, and it was bronchitis that eventually killed him in January 1936 aged 70.

Victoria (20 June 1837 - 22 January 1901)

Here is an example of a Jubilee Shilling from 1887 of Queen Victoria Spink Number 3926 Small Head some additional information can be found below.

HOUSE OF HANOVER

Victoria (20 June 1837 - 22 January 1901) - born 24th May 1819 - one marriage with nine offspring

Victoria was granddaughter of George III, the daughter of his fifth son Edward. Her father Edward died while she was in infancy, but her mother Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld brought her up under a strict regimen that stood her in good stead to be Queen upon the death of her Uncle William. A Royal wedding took place on 10 February 1840 to Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, with whom she had four sons and five daughters, all of whom married into some of the finest Royal families in Europe. Victoria was devastated by the death of her beloved Albert in 1861 from typhoid and never really recovered, known as the “Widow of Windsor” in seclusion for 25 years until she emerged for her Golden Jubilee. During the seclusion Victoria also became Empress of India in 1878.

Victoria enjoyed the longest reign so far of any monarch and saw her Diamond Jubilee in 1897, the only time this has occurred in British history so far. The Industrial Revolution was now in full force, the zenith of which was the Great Exhibition of 1851. Victoria built up the greatest Empire ever seen since the days of the Ancient Romans. There were many technological revolutions with the harnessing of electricity perhaps most significant, also the invention of the telephone and motor transport, as well as the massive growth of railways and shipping and science. Magnificent architecture from the Victorian era not only transformed London, but also cities as far apart as Sydney and Delhi, Hong Kong and Singapore.

Victoria died aged 81 with her family gathered around her at Osbourne House on the Isle of Wight after a 63 year reign, her body was brought back to the Capital by the Royal Train. Her long reign produced some fascinating coinage and many different busts were used for the various Colonial coinages. Branch Mints opened in Australia, first in Sydney then Melbourne, and much later at Perth. There were attempts at decimalization during her reign and the biggest successful move towards this was the introduction of the Florin or one tenth of a pound in 1848.

Some of the finest designs were by William Wyon for the 1839 gold Five Pounds coin used in that year’s proof set and later for the 1847 Gothic Crown. The Wyon family dominated coin and medal production for the earlier part of Victoria’s reign, J E Boehm engraved the Jubilee coinage of 1887, and Thomas Brock the “widow” old head coinage of 1893.

Edward IV (4 Mar 1461 - 6 Oct 1470) Coinage And History

This is a typical Edward IV second reign halfgroat
Initial Mark Rose, C
on Breast, trefoils on all cusps ( Blunt and Whitton
XVIII ) reverse with
nothing in centre also with Initial mark Rose, (Blunt
and Whitton XIX) and
is also DIG no 1/6 Unfortunately it's worn and has been clipped, but still a nice example given it's age some more history follows below.


THE YORKIST KINGS

Edward IV (4 Mar 1461 - 6 Oct 1470) deposed: restored (11 Apr 1471 - 9 Apr 1483) - born 28th April 1442 - one marriage with ten offspring

In 1461 the Yorkist claimant Edward, seized the throne with the help of his cousin Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick who was also known as the powerful ‘Kingmaker’ for his decisive actions in determining who sat on the English throne. Unwisely, he married Elizabeth Woodville and English politics became dominated by her ambitious family, much to the distaste of Edwards’ brothers and their allies.

The powerful but treacherous Warwick later proved to be trouble when he briefly restored Henry to the throne in 1470. However Edward reassembled an army from Burgundy, and after killing Warwick at the Battle of Barnet (1471) he destroyed the Lancastrians at Tewkesbury (1471), finally sentencing Henry VI to death in the tower of London. His reign was prosperous despite the brief interregnum, and planted the seeds and blossoming of the Renaissance in England. Edward died suddenly in 1483 aged only 40 leaving two young sons and a daughter, with a troubled legacy.

In order to increase the bullion supply the weight of the penny was reduced in 1464 and the face value of the gold noble went up. A new gold coin the Ryal or Rose Noble was issued at ten shillings, but the old noble was missed so the Angel was also introduced later. Royal Mints were also opened at Canterbury and York to help with re-coinage and other short-term mints were Bristol, Coventry and Norwich.

Treasure Trove Warning Over E-Bay

Treasure Trove Warning Over E-Bay

This story I found to be interesting as it could have a very big effect on what we may see for auction in the future, as I'm not sure how many people knew of the law and I don't think it was really being enforced.

People who find treasure may be breaking the law if they do not report it to the authorities, eBay and the British Museum are warning.
The museum has set up a specialist team - under its Portable Antiquities Scheme (PAS) - to make sure antiques are legally sold by eBay sellers.
Some traders in archaeological finds are unaware they may have to be declared under the Treasure Act.

Illegal listings will be reported to specialist Met Police detectives.
English, Welsh and Northern Irish archaeological finds which constitute "treasure" must be reported to the local coroner or the PAS under the Treasure Act.
Metallic objects made up of at least 10% gold or silver which are at least 300 years old are classed as treasure.

"There are definitely some people who know perfectly well what they're doing" British Museum


Some coins with lower amounts of gold or silver could also be classed as treasure.
Failure to report finds deemed to be treasure is a criminal offence under the act.
Items spotted by the PAS being sold on eBay illegally have included gold and silver Roman rings.

Staff from PAS - which is run by the British Museum on behalf of the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council (MLA) - will contact sellers to make sure they have reported items and are entitled to offer them for sale.

The British Museum's Roger Bland told BBC News: "There are definitely some people who know perfectly well what they're doing. They're selling finds on a regular basis all the time.
"But when we contact people who are selling objects we think should be reported as treasure there's quite a few more who I think genuinely do it out of ignorance because they don't know about the law."

'Valuable insights'

Chris Batt, chief executive of the MLA, said the partnership would mean illegal listings could be stopped and action taken.
"Doing so is vital because such activity is not only illegal but could also damage the archaeological record as, without effective reporting, valuable insights into our past could be lost forever," he said.

An eBay spokesman said educating its customers "on what to look out for when buying antiquities on eBay and informing sellers of their obligations is of paramount importance".
As part of the joint initiative, the site has created a guide to buying and selling antiquities which offers advice on reporting obligations.

Under the Treasure Act, metallic objects made up of at least 10% gold or silver which are at least 300 years old must be reported to the local coroner or the PAS.
Some coins with lower amounts of gold or silver could also be classed as treasure.
Items spotted by the PAS being sold on eBay illegally have included gold and silver Roman rings.

Story from BBC NEWS:http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5401588.stm

Edward I (20 Nov 1272 - 7 Jul 1307) Coinage And History

I thought it might be good to move back in time, to Edward The First. This was another time in Englands history that events happend that were to steer the course of Englands future.

With the formation of a more formal Parliment and codec of laws and taxation, it was also the time that The title of Prince of Wales was created.


The House Of Anjou (1272-1399)

Edward I (20 Nov 1272 - 7 Jul 1307) - born 17th June 1239 - two marriages with seventeen offspring

Edward proved a competent general and powerful leader in stark contrast to his father. His legal reforms and development of Parliament possibly at the expense of feudalism earned him the title ‘lawgiver’. He sought to unite Britain and started off by successfully invading and garrisoning Wales. He promised the Welsh nobility a domestic overlord, and later surprised them by re-creating the title and investing his son, Edward, as the Prince of Wales at Caernarfon Castle. His fruitless invasion of Scotland (thwarted by William Wallace and Robert I) merely incited a bitter enmity from the Scots that would develop for many years to come. Much to the relief of the Scots under Robert Bruce, Edward died aged 68 whilst preparing to re-invade them.

The long cross coinage continued into this reign and was now again quite crude, it was abandoned in 1279 and a new coinage substituted. The new coinage consisted of the Groat (or Fourpence) for the first time. Athough this proved not yet popular enough to last, over thirty dies were used to make this new denomination. Being of such a large diameter they proved quite popular as jewellery and are only genuinely rare these days if never mounted.