Odyssey Marine Shipwreck Holds 200,000 Gold Coins

Odyssey Marine has started work on another shipwreck that could hold about four tons of gold the full story follows below.

Odyssey Marine, the southern Florida shipwreck experts that have found more coin treasures than any other salver, has discovered the wreck of HMS Victory, it was announced Feb 2.

HMS Victory sank in the English Channel on Oct. 4, 1744, taking 1,150 sailors and four tons of Portuguese gold to the bottom of Davy Jones' locker.

About 200,000 gold coins are believed to be part of the treasure, whose sinking caused a major embarrassment to King George II in 1744, and whose recovery in 2009 could well become a cause celebre in international legal circles.

The wreckage of the HMS Victory, found below about 330 feet of water, may carry an even bigger jackpot than the $500 million in sunken treasure discovered two years ago off the coast of Spain.

Research indicates the HMS Victory was carrying 4 tons of gold coins when it sank in storm, said Greg Stemm, co-founder of Odyssey Marine Exploration, ahead of a Feb. 2 news conference in London.

So far, two brass cannons have been recovered from the wreck, Stemm said. The Florida-based company said it is negotiating with the British government over collaborating on the project.

"This is a big one, just because of the history,'' Stemm said. "Very rarely do you solve an age-old mystery like this.''

Thirty-one brass cannons and other evidence on the wreck allowed definitive identification of the HMS Victory, the 175-foot (53-meter) sailing ship that was separated from its fleet and sank in the English Channel on Oct. 4, 1744, with at least 900 men aboard, the company said. The ship was the largest and, with 110 brass cannons, the most heavily armed vessel of its day. It was the inspiration for the HMS Victory famously commanded by Adm. Horatio Nelson decades later.

Odyssey was searching for other valuable shipwrecks in the English Channel when it came across the Victory. Stemm wouldn't say exactly where the ship was found for fear of attracting plunderers, though he said it wasn't close to where it was expected.

"We found this more than 50 miles (80 kilometers) from where anybody would have thought it went down,'' Stemm said.

Federal court records filed by Odyssey in Tampa seeking the exclusive salvage rights said the site is 25 miles to 40 miles (40 kilometers to 64 kilometers) from the English coast, outside of its territorial waters. Odyssey Marine has previously discovered vessels with treasure that sailed under the flags of Spain, Peru, England and others.

In order to assert ownership, Odyssey Marine commenced an action in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida, located in Tampa. The technical term is to "arrest" the vessel, a principal whereby the salver recovers some portion of the ship or its cargo and brings it before the court. In this case, it was a brass cannon.

The Victory - the same name was used for Lord Nelson's shop at Trafalgar generations later - is only called an "Unidentified vessel" in the title of the complaint, the better to confuse those who might seek to take the treasure from under the noses of the competition - other treasure salvers.

Odyssey's claims for salvage rights for other vessels were asserted under either international law of the sea or the law of salvage, which sometimes conflict. They are litigating against the Kingdom of Spain and Republic fo Peru over Spanish galleons found after a shipwreck in the 17th century.

English shipwrecks have a common law background, different from the civil law of Spanish countries, which reserve treasure to the sovereign - and provide that it cannot be salvaged without the consent of Her Majesty's government. On another less important wreck, Odyssey got to keep 80 percent of the first $50 million in salvage value on a diminishing scale until above $500 million the profits would be split 50-50.

Under international maritime law and the law of the sea, going back to the time of Hugo Grotius in the year 1600, when an owner of a vessel abandons it, it may be claimed by anyone who finds it. When it is not abandoned, a wreck may be salvaged by anyone who claims it ("arrests" the wreck, in the arcane language of admiralty law).

They may not necessarily be able to keep the goods, but must be compensated for the salvage work that they have done the payment can be quite liberal - if there is a right to work the vessel and its treasure in the first place.

In most instances, available technology at the time the ships surrendered to the depths limited the ability to salvage the ships, rescue persons or property. The situation with the Mercedes (another Odyssey litigation with Spain) is also similar to more than 600 other Spanish wrecks that are known to have populated the East Coast of the United States.

This very factor, and the wreck of other ships, prompted the U.S. Congress in 1987 to try and regulate control over the marine tragedies that took place inside the three-mile limit. Essentially, they were ruled to be owned by the United States, which in turn delegated the ownership to the individual states.

The Victory is located in the English Channel, about 60 miles from its last reported position which solved a historical mystery - and Odyssey claims that no nation has the right to regulate who can salvage it. The British Foreign Office disagrees.

Regardless of the state or nation involved, the general principals of law are essentially the same. When sunken ships or their cargo are rescued from the bottom of the ocean by those other than the owners, courts generally favor applying the law of salvage over the law of finds.

"Finds" can be summed up by that childish taunt, "Finder's keepers".

Finds law is generally applied, however, where the previous owners are found to have abandoned their property. Abandonment must be proved to the Court's satisfaction by clear and convincing evidence, typically by an owner's express declaration abandoning title. (It can be proved indirectly through actions, too).

In some instances, a commercial shipments of gold may be insured, and the underwriters are usually asked to promptly pay the claims. The payment of the claims vests title to the gold in the underwriters, who can no more salvage the boat than the government can.

The position of the Department of State, as expressed in a Report of the House of Representatives in 1988 is that "the U.S. only abandons its sovereignty over, and title to, sunken U.S. warships by affirmative act; mere passage of time or lack of positive assertions of right are insufficient to establish such abandonment."

A 1902 treaty of friendship and commerce with Spain provided the key that the Court will look to: "Spanish vessels can ... be abandoned only by express renunciation. Both Spain and the United States agree that this treaty provision requires that in our territorial waters Spanish ships are to be accorded the same immunity as United States.

So the shipwreck of the century is headed to Tampa and court, where it will all be sorted out in the coming months. Meanwhile, the salvers will be looking for the coins that they know are on board, under 300 feet of the English channel and many pages of history.

Odyssey Marine Finds More Coins

Odyssey Marine has found another wreck only time will tell if legal issues don't tie this one up as well. The Full article follows below. Let me know what you think should they be searching these wrecks? Also do you think this one will get tied up in the courts like some of the others?

Odyssey Marine, the southern Florida concern that has found more coin treasurers than any other salver, has a new discovery as of Feb. 2: the wreck of HMS Victory, which sank in the English Channel on Oct. 4, 1744 taking 1,150 sailors and four tons of Portuguese gold to the bottom of Davy Jones's locker.

About 200,000 gold coins are believed to be part of the treasure, whose sinking caused a major embarrassment to King George II in 1744, and whose recovery in 2009 could well become a cause celebre in international legal circles.

The wreckage of the HMS Victory, found below about 330 feet of water, may carry an even bigger jackpot than the $500 million in sunken treasure discovered two years ago off the coast of Spain.

Research indicates the HMS Victory was carrying 4 tons of gold coins when it sank in storm, said Greg Stemm, co-founder of Odyssey Marine Exploration, ahead of a Monday news conference in London.

So far, two brass cannons have been recovered from the wreck, Stemm said. The Florida-based company said it is negotiating with the British government over collaborating on the project.

"This is a big one, just because of the history,'' Stemm said. "Very rarely do you solve an age-old mystery like this.''

Thirty-one brass cannons and other evidence on the wreck allowed definitive identification of the HMS Victory, 175-foot (53-meter) sailing ship that was separated from its fleet and sank in the English Channel on Oct. 4, 1744, with at least 900 men aboard, the company said. The ship was the largest and, with 110 brass cannons, the most heavily armed vessel of its day. It was the inspiration for the HMS Victory, famously commanded by Adm. Horatio Nelson decades later.

Odyssey was searching for other valuable shipwrecks in the English Channel when it came across the Victory. Stemm wouldn't say exactly where the ship was found for fear of attracting plunderers, though he said it wasn't close to where it was expected.

"We found this more than 50 miles (80 kilometers) from where anybody would have thought it went down,'' Stemm said.

Federal court records filed by Odyssey in Tampa seeking the exclusive salvage rights said the site is 25 miles to 40 miles (40 kilometers to 64 kilometers) from the English coast, outside of its territorial waters. Odyssey Marine has previously discovered vessels with treasure that sailed under the flags of Spain, Peru, England and others.

In order to assert ownership, Odyssey Marine commenced an action in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida, located in Tampa. The technical term is to "arrest" the vessel, a principal whereby the salver recovers some portion of the ship or its cargo and brings it before the court. In this case, it was a brass cannon.

The Victory the same name was used for Lord Nelson's shop at Trafalgar generations later is only called an "Unidentified vessel" in the title of the complaint, the better to confuse those who might seek to take the treasure from under the noses of the competition other treasure salvers.

Odyssey's claims for salvage rights for other vessels were asserted under either international law of the sea or the law of salvage, which sometimes conflict. They are litigating against the Kingdom of Spain and Republic fo Peru over Spanish galleons found after a shipwreck in the 17th century.

English shipwrecks have a common law background, different from the civil law of Spanish countries, which reserve treasure to the sovereign and provide that it cannot be salvaged without the consent of Her Majesty's government. On another less important wreck, Odyssey got to keep 80 percent of the first $50 million in salvage value on a diminishing scale until above $500 million the profits would be split 50-50.

Under international maritime law and the law of the sea, going back to the time of Hugo Grotius in the year 1600, when an owner of a vessel abandons it, it may be claimed by anyone who finds it. When it is not abandoned, a wreck may be salvaged by anyone who claims it ("arrests" the wreck, in the arcane language of admiralty law).

They may not necessarily be able to keep the goods, but must be compensated for the salvage work that they have done the payment can be quite liberal if there is a right to work the vessel and its treasure in the first place.

In most instances, available technology at the time the ships surrendered to the depths limited the ability to salvage the ships, rescue persons or property. The situation with the Mercedes (another Odyssey litigation with Spain) is also similar to more than 600 other Spanish wrecks that are known to have populated the East Coast of the United States.

This very factor, and the wreck of other ships, prompted the U.S. Congress in 1987 to try and regulate control over the marine tragedies that took place inside the three-mile limit. Essentially, they were ruled to be owned by the United States, which in turn delegated the ownership to the individual states.

The Victory is located in the English Channel, about 60 miles from its last reported position which solved a historical mystery and Odyssey claims that no nation has the right to regulate who can salvage it. The British Foreign Office disagrees.

Regardless of the state or nation involved, the general principals of law are essentially the same. When sunken ships or their cargo are rescued from the bottom of the ocean by those other than the owners, courts generally favor applying the law of salvage over the law of finds.

"Finds" can be summed up by that childish taunt, "Finder's keepers".

Finds law is generally applied, however, where the previous owners are found to have abandoned their property. Abandonment must be proved to the Court's satisfaction by clear and convincing evidence, typically by an owner's express declaration abandoning title. (It can be proved indirectly through actions, too).

In some instances, a commercial shipments of gold may be insured, and the underwriters are usually asked to promptly pay the claims. The payment of the claims vests title to the gold in the underwriters, who can no more salvage the boat than the government can.

The position of the Department of State, as expressed in a Report of the House of Representatives in 1988 IS that "the U.S. only abandons its sovereignty over, and title to, sunken U.S. warships by affirmative act; mere passage of time or lack of positive assertions of right are insufficient to establish such abandonment".

A 1902 treaty of friendship and commerce with Spain provided the key that the Court will look to: "Spanish vessels can ... be abandoned only by express renunciation. Both Spain and the United States agree that this treaty provision requires that in our territorial waters Spanish ships are to be accorded the same immunity as United States.

So the shipwreck of the century is headed to Tampa and court where it will all be sorted out in the coming months. Meanwhile, the salvers will be looking for the coins that they know are on board, under 300 feet of the English channel and many pages of history.

Alexander The Great (336–323 BC) (Coinage And History)

I have not been posting as much as I would like with the coinage and history series, so I thought I would get one out for a change this is one of my newest additions to the collection below you find some info on the coin and some history as well.

AR Drachm 19mm. 3.88g. Colophon Mint 301-297 B.C.

Head of Herakles, r. wearing lion skin headdress.
Zeus enthroned left., holding eagle and sceptre; lion's head left. above crescent in left. field; pentagram below throne.
Price 1832

Alexander the Great (Greek: Αλέξανδρος ο Μέγας or Μέγας Aλέξανδρος, Megas Alexandros; July 20 356 BC – June 10 323 BC),also known as Alexander III and Alexander the Macedonian, was an ancient Greek king (basileus) of Macedon (336–323 BC). He was one of the most successful military commanders in history, and was undefeated in battle. By the time of his death, he had conquered most of the world known to the ancient Greeks.

Alexander assumed the kingship of Macedon following the death of his father Philip II of Macedon. Philip had united most of the city-states of mainland Greece under Macedonian rule (the so-called League of Corinth). After reconfirming Macedonian hegemony by quashing a rebellion of southern Greek city-states, and staging a short but bloody excursion against Macedon's northern neighbors, Alexander set out east against the Achaemenid Persian Empire, which he defeated and overthrew. His conquests including Anatolia, Syria, Phoenicia, Judea, Gaza, Egypt, Bactria, and Mesopotamia, and extended the boundaries of his own empire as far as Punjab, India.

Prior to his death, Alexander had already made plans for military and mercantile expansions into the Arabian peninsula, after which he was to turn his armies to the west (Carthage, Rome, and the Iberian Peninsula). His original vision had been to the east, though, to the ends of the world and the Great Outer Sea, as described by his boyhood tutor Aristotle.

Alexander integrated many foreigners into his army, leading some scholars to credit him with a "policy of fusion." He also encouraged marriages between his soldiers and foreigners; he himself went on to marry two foreign princesses.

Alexander died after twelve years of constant military campaigning, possibly as a result of malaria, poisoning, typhoid fever, viral encephalitis or the consequences of alcoholism. His legacy and conquests lived on long after him, and ushered in centuries of Greek settlement and cultural influence over distant areas. This period is known as the Hellenistic Age, and featured a combination of Greek, Middle Eastern and Indian culture. Alexander himself was featured prominently in the history and myth of both Greek and non-Greek cultures. His exploits inspired a literary tradition in which he appeared as a legendary hero in the tradition of Achilles.

The Gaden Tangka Of Tibet ( Coinage And History Series)

This is part of an ongoing series about coinage and history. I thought since the 14Th Dalai Lama will be visiting Canada soon it might be interesting to see a Coin from Tibet.

The coin pictured above is from 1880-1894 the following below is a description for this coin type.

Gaden Tanka Circa 1880-1894 All Classes Have the following types:

Obverse: Stylised Lotus design within circle surrounded by the eight Buddhist lucky symbols in radiating petals.

Reverse: Eight petalled flower within star surrounded by inscription broken up into eight oval frames. Inscription in Tibetan reads as: "Ga-den Pho-dang chhog-le rnam-gyal" The Golden Palace Victorious on all sides.

This Gaden Tangka I believe to be a Class B Type IV using Rhodes Classification system.

This coin is from the time of the 13Th Dali Lama a brief biography follows below in an attempt to put the coin into an historical perspective.

Thubten Gyatso (born February 12, 1876; died December 17, 1933) was the 13th Dalai Lama of Tibet. He was an intelligent reformer who proved himself a skillful politician when Tibet became a pawn in the great game between Imperial Russia, China, and the British Empire. He was responsible for countering the British expedition to Tibet, restoring discipline in monastic life, and increasing the number of lay officials to avoid excessive power being placed in the hands of the monks.

Legislation was introduced to counter corruption among officials, a national taxation system was established, and a police force was created. As a result of his contacts with foreign powers and their representatives (e.g., Pyotr Kozlov and Gustaf Mannerheim), the Dalai Lama showed an interest in world affairs and introduced electricity, the telephone and the first motor car to Tibet. Nonetheless, at the end of his life in 1933, he saw that Tibet was about to enter a dark age.

The 13th Dalai Lama predicted before dying:

"Very soon in this land (with a harmonious blend of religion and politics) deceptive acts may occur from without and within. At that time, if we do not dare to protect our territory, our spiritual personalities including the Victorious Father and Son (Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama) may be exterminated without trace, the property and authority of our Lakangs (residences of reincarnated lamas) and monks may be taken away. Moreover, our political system, developed by the Three Great Dharma Kings (Tri Songtsen Gampo, Tri Songdetsen and Tri Ralpachen) will vanish without anything remaining. The property of all people, high and low, will be seized and the people forced to become slaves. All living beings will have to endure endless days of suffering and will be stricken with fear. Such a time will come."

Furthermore, the 13th Dalai Lama went on to predict the invasion of Tibet and announced that he would die early, in order that his successor would be old enough to act as a leader for the Tibetan people at the time of this invasion. He died several months later.

I hope you find this interesting please let me know what you think any feedback would be great.

George V (6 May 1910 - 20 January 1936)

This is a shilling of George V Spink 4013 and is part of the ongoing series of Coinage and History. I hope you find it interesting.

HOUSE OF WINDSOR Formally Known As The House Of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

George V (6 May 1910 - 20 January 1936) - born 3rd June 1865 - one marriage with five offspring

Second son of Edward VII, George Duke of York was a fine naval officer and pushed his career until the death of his elder brother Albert made him heir to the throne. He married Mary of Teck in 1893 who bore him four sons and one daughter. George saw Britain through the crises of World War I and even visited the front, one occasion at which he broke his pelvis after falling from his horse, the injury would pain him for the rest of his life.

George suffered badly from Bronchitis in the early thirties and spent a lot of time in Bognor on the south coast of Britain to take in the good air, and henceforth the town has been known as Bognor Regis. The King was still in ill health by the time of his Silver Jubilee in 1935, and it was bronchitis that eventually killed him in January 1936 aged 70.


Under George V's reign paper money was issued by the treasury to replace internal gold usage though branch mints remained open at Australia and South Africa continued striking Sovereigns until 1930 to 1932. The steep rise in silver prices at around 1919-1920 led to the issue standard of .925 silver being discontinued and coins of .500 silver were minted.

In 1918 as half sovereigns were not being minted farthings were issued with the ordinary bronze finish. Crown pieces had not been issued for awhile for general circulation but were struck in a small number around the Holidays for people to give as gifts. There was also a special commemorative crown issued in 1935 using an Art Deco design of George and The Dragon to celebrate George V's Silver Jubilee and is sometime affectionately called the Rocking Horse crown, because George V died on January 20Th it is most likely that coins dated 1936 were struck under Edward VIII.

The British Trade Dollar ( Coinage And History)

With the extension of British trading interest in the East, especially after the founding of Singapore 1819 and Hong Kong in 1842, it became necessary to produce a special Dollar so as to remove the reliance of a British Colony upon the various foreign coins then in circulation. The two Pictures above are Trade Dollars from my collection both from the reign of Victoria, One is a 1897 B Mint the other is a 1900 B mint

China Trade, Silver Dollars were a direct result of the Opium Wars (1839-1843, 1856-1860), which began when China tried to stop Britain from selling opium to its citizens. The loser, China, had to open up a number of ports to British trade and residence, and cede Hong Kong to Britain. In the decades that followed, merchants and adventurers flocked to these areas, and international trade flourished. Foreign banks were established, and large silver coins from all over the world began arriving to pay for tea, silk, and Chinese porcelain to be shipped abroad. These .900 fine silver trade dollars were then circulated throughout China, where they were readily accepted as a medium of exchange. The British Trade Dollars, minted exclusively for use in the Far East, depict Britannia standing on shore, holding a trident in one hand and balancing a British shield in the other, with a merchant ship under full sail in the background. On the reverse is an arabesque design with the Chinese symbol for longevity in the center, and the denomination in two languages— Chinese and Malay.

The British Trade Dollar was minted from 1895, with the last being produced in 1935. Those with the mint mark "B" were produced at the Bombay mint; others, marked "C", were struck in Calcutta. The mint mark "C" can be found in the ground between the left foot of Britannia and the base of the shield, while the mint mark "B" is located in the centre prong of the trident. The 1921-B dollar was struck but never released for circulation, and only a limited number of 1934-B and 1935-B coins were released. Certain dates are found with a new date being over-struck on another; these include 1897-B over 1896-B, 1900-B over 1894-B, 1901-B over 1900-B, 1909-B over 1908-B, 1904-B over 1898-B, 1903-B over 1902-B, 1908-B over 1903-B, 1904-B over 1903-B, 1929-B over 1901-B, 1908-B over 1907-B, and 1910-B over 1900-B. The British Trade Dollar was demonetized on August 1, 1937.